Curse

instanceskiller · May 05, 2009, 06:26 PM // 18:26

i would also like to see rts get kinda buffed as i also agree that their primary attribute is kinda useless at the moment

and unless they buff the rts skills themselves then i think they should change the rts primary attribute.

First buff suggestion- I liked the buff to wep spells when anet last buffed Spawning power to make it increase all wep spells by 2% per rank...
however this doesn't really make much of a difference as that, at rank 12, the buff is only 24% which doesn't rlly make too much of a difference to most wep spells as they are kind of short like weapon of warding. At rank 12 Spawning power, the buff would only make weapon of warding last an extra 2 secs approximately. So maybe making it 3-4% would be better.

Second buff suggestion-Maybe since in the rts introduction it says-
"They hood their eyes to better commune with spirits that grant great power and protection"the idea of having an increase in armor wouldn't be too bad...
so my suggestion is maybe to have Spawning power read-

"For each rank of Spawning Power you have, creatures you create (or animate) have 4% more Health, and things you create (excluding animated creatures) lasts 2% longer as well as having or granting +1 armor . Some Ritualist skills, especially those related to Spirit creatures, become more effective with higher Spawning Power. "

This means that if you create a spirit at rank 12 Spawning power, that spirit gains +12 armor and if you use, say...weapon of warding at rank 12, whoever you use it on has +12 armor. This +armor should also not count towards the +20 (i think?) armor cap.

Third and final suggestion-I know we have boon of creation already...but since its an enchant and easily stripped with a rather long recharge, maybe we should give rts another form of energy management?
My suggestion would be something like changing spawning power to read...

"For each rank of Spawning Power you have, creatures you create (or animate) have 4% more Health, and weapon Spells you cast last 2% longer. Whenever something you create dies or ends, you gain half (or maybe all?) the energy used to create it. Some Ritualist skills, especially those related to Spirit creatures, become more effective with higher Spawning Power. "

This could fit in with what ritualists are supposed to be in concept as the energy management could be the ritualists reclaiming some of the energy it used to create thus creating a circle of give and take between the ritualist and the spirits.

Anyways those are just some of the suggestions i could come up with that would buff rts whilst still staying within the concept of rts.

bargaw · May 05, 2009, 07:55 PM // 19:55

Bargh's opinion:
-Make SP combination of [Boon of Creation] and [Wielders Zeal] with reduced power for balance, remove previous bonuses.
-Rework [Boon of Creation] to give minions more health.
-Rework [Wielders Zeal] to make weapon smith rits' builds useful(maybe elite version of Wielders Boon).

Magikarp · May 05, 2009, 08:25 PM // 20:25

I strongly think Boon should be a skill, not an enchantment. Keep the casting time, but it would be much better if were to work like Troll

spirit of defeat · May 05, 2009, 08:34 PM // 20:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by bargaw

Bargh's opinion:
-Make SP combination of [Boon of Creation] and [Wielders Zeal] with reduced power for balance, remove previous bonuses.
-Rework [Boon of Creation] to give minions more health.
-Rework [Wielders Zeal] to make weapon smith rits' builds useful(maybe elite version of Wielders Boon).

Like I said a biljoen times. Don't make SP related to energy:
1) Rit's don't have energy problems.
2) It will result in nerfs to rebalance.

ightgg · May 05, 2009, 08:55 PM // 20:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joseph Spiritmaster

Sorry Not signed, only on the reason that Spawning the way it is is Fine.... just you need to THINK on how to use it, it can be VERY powerful when you just spend about a minute to think about it... Something most people in today's game cant seem to do...

Curious. You need a more expierenced point of view. Sorry joseph, dont give your worthless opinion please. This thread is indeed pointless but not because people dont think but because people dont use the skills provided.

-Rit <3

upier · May 05, 2009, 09:29 PM // 21:29

I am kinda over the buff to Spawning.
We have a good thing going on right now - the ability to max out two lines that are actually decent. Just buff (and by "buff" I mean overpower) a bunch of skills in those two lines - and I'll be quite happy.

Nightow · May 05, 2009, 10:57 PM // 22:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by upier

...Just buff (and by "buff" I mean overpower) a bunch of skills in those two lines - and I'll be quite happy.

[splinter weapon (PvE)@22]

...Please?

MisterT69 · May 05, 2009, 11:22 PM // 23:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nightow

[splinter weapon (PvE)@22]

...Please?

How bout this for OP: Double the damage, make it last the full 20 seconds without ending after X amount of hits, thus making it more like [great dwarf weapon] without the KD but with the addition of AoE. (That's just begging for abuse in PVE)

upier · May 06, 2009, 05:31 AM // 05:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nightow

[splinter weapon (PvE)@22]

...Please?

Splinter and AR are good. Sure Splinter would be better if they removed the whole "3 foes only"-clause, but even without that, it's very worth the skillslot. What is not good is that out of the whole line, those two skills are the ONLY two skills worth the skillslot.

And it's the same with resto - you have just enough good skills to put together a SINGLE build WITH AR and SW.
And that on top of the fact that Communing and SP are completely and utterly shitty! That just shows that the ritualist problem goes beyond a crappy primary.

street peddler · May 10, 2009, 06:59 PM // 18:59

eh, no. channeling and restoration are fine. theres plenty of worthwhile skills. buff spawning power skills to sync with these 2 lines (turn weapon of renewal into a slightly better vengeful weapon, etc) and maybe ill start playing again.

Inichigo osani · May 11, 2009, 11:44 PM // 23:44

I would love something to be done with this attribute, but from what i can tell there will be nothing done to this attribute line. Ritualists, and Paragons for that matter have been altered so their original visions no longer apply, and the designers have swept them under the carpet and forgotten about them. These 2 professions do need a second (3rd,4th) look at. But as they have not been looked at in awhile now (years?), and with the lack of resources given to this game for skill updates (only a few skills updated each month) leads one to believe that nothing will happen, I hope I am wrong!
It annoys me that for a game that has so many skills, instead of improving them. Some get quick fixed and most other skills never get looked at that need fixing. Ritualists aren't the only profession that needs a revamp, but they are one of the most needed ones.
Ok im done ranting and QQ'ing now i need a box of tissues.

reaper with no name · May 18, 2009, 06:11 AM // 06:11

I think rits need help more than any profession right now. Dervs have 2 good avatars and the wounding strike/reaper's sweep builds. Paragons have Imbagon. But do rits really have anything that a monk can't do better?

The easiest way I can see to buff spawning power is to just increase all it's durations. Instead of +4% and +2% increases per point of SP, make them +10% and +5%. And make it a +5% duration for item spells, too. It might not be the best way, but it is the simplest, and I think it gets the job done.

The key is to make rits the best at using their own skills. If you don't do that, then any buffs to the profession's skills become meaningless, because people will just play N/Rts and E/Rts. First you make the rits the best at using their own stuff, THEN you make that stuff useful.

Skye Marin · May 18, 2009, 06:19 AM // 06:19

There's been some talk on the boards that Spawning Power should get a buff because it's a comparatively weak attribute. I believe the solution is not to improve the attribute itself, but to improve a healthy number of skills in the attribute that would help Rit healers do their job better.

This would be similar to Strength. The warrior primary has many good skills that define the class, like Bull's Strike, Body Blow, Enraging Charge, Flail, Rush, and Sprint.

On a PvP side of things, many people think secondary Rit healers (like SR Necro/Rits, or Ether Prism Elementalists/Rits) are kinda lame. A change to improve the Rit primary gives opportunity to push these builds aside, or tone them down by tweaking the power of certain Restoration spells.

Here are several examples:

Spirit Channeling - New Functionality: For 30 seconds, each time you cast a non-weapon Ritualist Spell on an ally, one spirit in earshot loses 5..20 health, that ally is healed for three times that amount.
Wielder's Zeal - For 10..30 seconds, you gain 0..2 energy whenever you cast a weapon spell, and that target ally is healed for 15..60 Health.
Feast of Souls - New Functionality : 5/1/10 "Destroy target spirit. All allies in earshot lose 0..2 conditions and gain 10..55 health"
Spirit's Gift - Increase range to earshot
Explosive Growth - Increase range to area
Ghostly Haste, Renewing Memories - Increase duration to 10..25 seconds
Signet of Spirits - Moved to Spawning Power - New Functionality : 0/1/20 You gain 3..12 energy and 30..150 health. If you are in earshot of a spirit, this skill recharges 5..35% faster.

Betrayer of Wind · May 18, 2009, 07:06 AM // 07:06

Completely agree with the changes,i cant see much of a use to spawning power skills besides attuned and explosive growth,the others really need a buff.

spirit of defeat · May 18, 2009, 07:32 AM // 07:32

Sugesstions to buff the skills are alrdy made Like here by me.
And a lot peeps there agree that a skill buff would really help.
The problem is most idea's alrdy have been suggested.

Daisuko · May 18, 2009, 10:27 AM // 10:27

ritualists have always been the "jack of all trades" so maybe you could rework spawning power, to give +1 to all (other) attributes for every 8 ranks of spawning power, or something similar. (in addition to current effects of course)

that would allow you to spec 12 - 10 - 8 and actually get 13 - 11 - 8. Similar to how elemental lord works.

Daisuko · May 18, 2009, 10:38 AM // 10:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by reaper with no name

I think rits need help more than any profession right now. Dervs have 2 good avatars and the wounding strike/reaper's sweep builds. Paragons have Imbagon. But do rits really have anything that a monk can't do better?

The easiest way I can see to buff spawning power is to just increase all it's durations. Instead of +4% and +2% increases per point of SP, make them +10% and +5%. And make it a +5% duration for item spells, too. It might not be the best way, but it is the simplest, and I think it gets the job done.

The key is to make rits the best at using their own skills. If you don't do that, then any buffs to the profession's skills become meaningless, because people will just play N/Rts and E/Rts. First you make the rits the best at using their own stuff, THEN you make that stuff useful.

problem I see for the item spell buff is vengeful was in PvE. 16 spawn 14~15 resto would allow you to have 20 second vengeful was, only down for 3/4ths of a second. Really though, I would like to see ritualist's elites reworked to be more effective... particularly in PvE. In PvP, some of them are fairly decent, but in PvE... Caretaker's is lame, needs to give energy instead of just being free. clamor of souls is lame, too low damage to bother. Destructive was glaive is lame, 10% Armor penetration isn't really worth an elite; heroes refuse to pre-cast. Grasping was Kurrong is lame, too long recharge to be effective really, too high energy too. offering of spirit is lame, you gain nearly as much energy from essence strike as offering... but it's better than nothing. signet of spirits is just plain stupid. I mean seriously. summon spirits anyone? weapon of fury is lame because splinter weapon is far better to have on any physical attacker.

And that's just listing channeling. To be honest...

Signet of Ghostly Might, attuned was songkai, and spirit's strength are the only decent rit elites available to rit primaries. (Not counting vengeful was, as that's purely a farming skill)

MithranArkanere · May 18, 2009, 01:44 PM // 13:44

And what about speed increase when activating creation or summoning skills?
At least in PvE, characters could use something in the lines of this:
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Accelerated_Growth

Why to choose a ritualist instead of a necromancer when bringing spirits or minions when more health is not enough good reason (i.e.: bomber builds)? Because interrupting you would be harder, since you could cast 3 second creation spells and rituals in 2 seconds.

ogre_jd · May 18, 2009, 07:22 PM // 19:22

My ideas, which probably suck

, are...

1) Lower Binding Ritual spirit level progression based on the attribute it's under, then add 1 level to the BR spirit for every rank in Spawning Power. Most (all?) spirits currently go to 8 at 15 in its attribute, so perhaps max it at 4 without Spawning Power. You want BR spirits that're vaguely durable, you gotta be a Rit.

2) Reduce the base duration of BR spirits to a maximum of 60 seconds at rank 12 for the longest-lived ones and have Spawning Power add 5 seconds per rank. Probably have to have a few BR spirits with a "Lifespan does not benefit from Spawning Power" tacked on, though.

3) Increase modifier to Weapon Spell duration to +5% per rank (eg, at rank 12 SP, a weapon spell normally lasting 30s would be 48s - a significant improvement that might actually be worth investing in SP, compared to the old 37.2s duration the spell has now at rank 12).

4) Dunno about Item Spells. Perhaps +1 effective rank in its governing attribute for every 5 ranks in Spawning Power...

draxynnic · May 26, 2009, 12:14 PM // 12:14

Those who watch Linsey's talk page may recall my mentioning that I had an idea that I was going to wait until I had time to hit the forum before presenting (to avoid it being caught up in the wiki licensing issue). For those who don't, my inspiration came from this comment:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shmutt

My main character is Ritualist too, I feel everyones pain. I can't understand what the skillbalance people think with, just to compare a few similar skills: Mind Blast vs. Caretaker's Charge. At 12 Fire Magic/Channeling Magic (Mind Blast/Caretaker's) it does 51/64 damage you gain 7/5 energy and with Caretaker's you also gain 41 health. To me this seems as a fair balance, although, Ritualist's need those extra points of energy more than Elementalists. The thing that chocks me is the recharge time, for Caretaker's it's at 4 seconds, which doesn't seem like that much - but Mind Blast has half the recharge, 2 seconds. So during the time you can cast one two Caretaker's (1sec cast + 4sec recharge)*2=10 seconds you can cast Mind Blast (1sec cast + 2sec recharge)*x=10 which gives you about 3,33 times. Taking that into consideration Mind Blast outshines Caretaker's Charge. Other discussed skills such as Essence Strike is also outshined by similar skills in other attributes, examples: Castigation Signet, Shock Arrow, Glowing Ice and so on and on and on and on.

In the comparison between Mind Blast and Caretaker's Charge, Shmutt has missed an important consideration here. The latter actually gives back more energy than it uses - using Shmutt's numbers, Mind Blast gives a profit of 2 energy, and if Fire Attunement is also being used (which it almost always will be) then the profit goes up to 4. Extra investment in Fire or use of Aura of Restoration or Elemental Lord increases the profit even more.

Meanwhile, Caretaker's Charge (and its cousin Clamor of Souls) only ever give back the energy they use - you can't use them for energy management, just as regular (and not particularly good) attack spells that don't cost energy if you fulfill the condition. This means that the gap between the two are actually considerably greater than Shmutt's analysis suggests, as indicated by Mind Blast being one of the favoured elites while Caretaker's is almost unused. The only advantage Caretaker's has is the steady healing, but with Aura of Restoration or Elemental Lord, even that advantage shifts to the Elementalist's court.

That analysis complete, what really caught my eye was the last sentence - Shock Arrow, Glowing Ice, and their cousins, each of which actually uses Energy Storage to determine the energy return. Why? Because another class - specifically, fast-casting Mesmers - were getting more use out of the skills than primary Elementalists.

Sound familiar? Not directly - after all, N/Rts aren't running around abusing Channeled Strike, and, indeed, don't need to because they already have enough energy. But it's an interesting principle - can we make Spawning Power more attractive by making some of the Ritualist's energy-gain-on-condition skills rely on Spawning Power for the energy gain component? It wouldn't be a complete solution to the SP problem, but it may well prove to be part of the solution.

So, with that in mind, here are some suggested skill changes:

Caretaker's Charge
Conditional energy gain increased to 5 plus 1 for every 2 ranks in Spawning Power

Clamor of Souls
Conditional energy gain increased to 10 plus 1 for every 2 ranks in Spawning Power

Essence Strike
Conditional energy gain changed to 5 plus 1 for every 2 ranks in Spawning Power

Soothing Memories
Recharge increased to 8s. Conditional energy gain increased to 5 plus 1 for every 2 ranks in Spawning Power

Pretty much all of these apart from Soothing Memories (and Essence Strike at high Channeling and low SP) are pure buffs. Soothing Memories is probably the most controversial of the four - however, I think Ritualists have enough short-recharge healing skills that the old version of Soothing Memories won't be missed if the new version serves as effective energy management... and clearly it can't have it's old recharge if it's potentially giving back 6-8 energy a pop.

However, the ability to heal and gain energy simultaneously, in the same attribute as regular healing spells, may prove to be a little too powerful - although this may be addressable by further increasing the recharge.

Thoughts?

While I'm on this topic, one concept that keeps coming up is that Ritualists are bad compared to Monks because they lack hex removal... but is this really the case, or is it that hex removal on non-Monk professions just isn't good enough? Looking at the professions available when Factions was released, it seems clear that the Monk wasn't actually intended to be the default hex-remover, but that the job was supposed to be split between the Monk and the Mesmer. Thus, in a hypothetical Factions-era party with one member of each profession, the Monk and Mesmer can share hex removal while the Monk and Ritualist can split protection, healing, and condition removal, with the end result being roughly equivalent to the two Monks that were seen as virtually required for success by the time Factions was released.

In practise, however, the Mesmer's hex removal is saddled with so many extras that it just isn't viable. Shatter Hex's incidental damage is balanced by an exhorbitant energy cost on a class whose energy management has been gutted, ironically because it was being abused by Monks. Inspired Hex is effectively disabled for twenty seconds when used. Expel Hexes is elite and only superior to the elegance of Remove Hex (let alone Monk elite hex removal spells) when the target has multiple hexes... and even then, it lacks the benefit of Divine Favour. And so on.

What this means in practise is that if you need heavy hex removal, you take Monks. And once you've got the two (or more!) Monks needed to control the hexes flying at you, why bring a Ritualist?

But what if Mesmers could remove Hexes as well as they could remove enchantments? It may not be possible for this iteration of Guild Wars, but if Mesmers could have a hex-removal equivalent to Mirror of Disenchantment or Air of Disenchantment for mass hex removal, it might serve to improve the desirability of both professions in hex-heavy areas.